More than 1 million Wisconsin residents signed petitions to recall Gov. Scott Walker and Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch. Since then, even more people have questioned the governor’s motives. They aren’t happy with many of the Walker-approved bills the Republican Legislature passed recently. They’re concerned because some of these new laws relax or repeal Wisconsin’s environmental protections, tenant rights and consumer protections.

Then there’s the Assembly version of the mining bill, which eliminates recourse to citizens whose land or water is contaminated. This bill also would reduce the amount of money mining companies have to pay communities to repair damage and cover other costs related to mining operations.

Despite all this, there are many people who still support Walker and the Republicans passing these bills. What are their reasons? They say it’s because he didn’t increase taxes, he balanced the budget, eliminated the deficit, and improved our economy. However, a closer look reveals the weakness of these arguments.

As for property taxes, many people who saw a slight decrease fail to consider that the market value of their homes has in many cases gone down, reducing their assessment. In fact, some property taxes went up. And lower-income citizens, those who can least afford it, will now pay more taxes because the Walker administration and the Republican Legislature eliminated the earned income and homestead tax credits. Meanwhile, many of the biggest contributors to Republican campaigns will pay less.

Most people aren’t aware that Wisconsin’s Constitution mandates a balanced budget.

Former Gov. Jim Doyle balanced it, as have governors before him. Yet Walker makes it sound like a big deal. The same way he proudly announced that he’d repealed the cap on expansion of the Family Care program, while failing to mention the federal government ordered the state to do it.

On his 2010 campaign website, Walker stated, “I promise to require the use of generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) to balance every state budget, just as we require every local government and school district to do.”

He called Doyle a liar for using the cash accounting method to make the budget appear balanced. However, after he was elected, Walker did the same thing.

GAAP is an accounting method used by corporations, smaller businesses and local governments. Despite chastising Doyle for it, Walker used the cash accounting method, instead of the GAAP, when he told us he’d balanced the budget and eliminated the deficit. With this method, expenses that occur in one fiscal year are pushed into the next year, creating an artificial surplus. Guess what? The budget isn’t balanced.

So how about the deficit? On Jan. 11, Bob Lang, director of the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, sent a letter to Assemblyman Jon Richards, D-Milwaukee. Lang stated: “In the Budget in Brief that accompanied the Governor’s 2011-2013 budget message, the administration projected that the GAAP deficit for the state will be $2.99 billion in 2011-12 and $3.02 billion in 2012-13.”

The governor’s own projections show that the deficit wasn’t close to being eliminated.

So, is the state’s economy improving under Walker? Not according to most indicators. The Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, which regularly forecasts states’ growth, released its latest findings in February. It reported, “Forty-four state coincident indexes are projected to grow over the next six months, while six are projected to decrease.” Wisconsin is among the bottom six.

Coincident indexes are measurements of several current economic conditions investors use to judge an economy’s health. It’s a sobering fact that, along with only five other states, Wisconsin’s economy is likely to get worse. In addition, the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that Wisconsin has lost more private sector jobs from July to December than any other state in the union.

Despite this evidence, the governor continues to claim his policies are working. Anyone who does the research knows this isn’t true. Yet some still cling to the myths and distortions that Walker and his media advisors publish as facts.

There are millions of out-of-state dollars supporting Walker. Those dollars pay for, among other things, advertising that perpetuates these myths — myths that many people continue to believe.

What can we do? For a start, we can take responsibility and educate ourselves so we’re able to determine the difference between facts and press releases that are meant to deceive us. That’s not easy. But unless we make an effort, we’re destined to be governed by those who work for interests other than our own.

Pat Nash has worked as a freelance writer, farmer, human resource manager, customer service supervisor and educator.

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(100) comments

oicu812
oicu812

Well this could be fun with Nash writing a column. I do realize it will take her time to get up to speed and all but to start out with her very first sentence being a lie doesn't bode well. Seems as though the actual count of signatures is just over 870K and that's before vetting. Of course we know how well the "clean up" process will be handled. Maybe Nash should conffer with Ms. Zick before spewing anymore propaganda..

Rightlightning
Rightlightning

Gee, and here I was hoping for something interesting from Pat but all we got is the same regurgitated drivel that has been spewing from the left for the past year.

I would comment on her piece but it would be about as easy and fun as kicking puppies. I’ll take a pass.

Try again Pat and my advice to you is to write an op-ed that has something new and interesting to say.

Skeptical
Skeptical

I have to concur with the comments so far on Pat Nash’s first try. Very disappointing. When I read her comments on property taxes, and realized that she did not understand how they fundamentally work, I had a hard time reading the rest of the article and taking her seriously. Maybe she’ll get some honest feedback (not just from those who would predictably slap high-fives and cheer her on), absorb and listen to it, and endeavor to improve. Pat needs to understand that when you put yourself out there like she does with a column, your facts and logic need to accurate and well thought out. Both she and Ellen Bueno need some work in those areas. In fairness, this is Pat's first column. Ellen has been writing for a while, and should really not have the problems that she does.

econam

So Pat Nash is a comedian?

Pat says “Most people aren’t aware that Wisconsin’s Constitution mandates a balanced budget. Former Gov. Jim Doyle balanced it, as have governors before him. Yet Walker makes it sound like a big deal.”

Pat are you talking about the time that Doyle traded 25 years worth of tobacco settlement payments that would have totaled over $4 billion for just $1.6 billion to PARTIALLY balance a single budget - losing $2.5 BILLION in future payments!

Pat says “So, is the state’s economy improving under Walker? Not according to most indicators.”

Ummmm, do you think the uncertainty of this whole recall thing may be the biggest contributing factor? NO other states are going through this and they are ALL doing better – a connection perhaps? Nooooo, it just couldn’t be!

It’s not the Governors policies that are failing us, it’s the PUBLIC Unions!

Wake up PRIVATE Union Members, you are being sold down the river.
No pipeline, no mine… no additional PRIVATE Union Jobs.

econam

Maybe we shouldn’t be so quick to judge Pat

I’m sure next week she will talk about…

Obama RAISING the Federal Union Member’s pension contribution from 7% up to 8.2% (Walker is only asking for 5.8%)

Obama Extending the “Bush tax cuts for the wealthy” instead of vetoing them. (Isn’t that “Right Wing”?)

Passing a bill (Obamacare) that will FORCE people to buy the product of PRIVATE CORPORATIONS. (Isn’t that “Right Wing” crony capitalism?)

Obama GIVING our tax dollars to the large 1% Corporations like GM, AIG, Fannie Mae, Solyndra… (Isn’t that “Right Wing” crony capitalism?)

Giving $10,000 Tax Payer Funded rebates to people who buy the $40,000 Chevy Volt – a car which had it’s production suspended a few weeks later. (Isn’t that called a FAILURE?)

Guantanamo Prison STILL open.

Obama touting the SUCCESS of the GM bailout (but failing to mention that WE still own 30% of the company AND will LOSE $23 BILLION on the deal) – Wow, what a success!

Looking forward to your next column Pat.

darkenskies
darkenskies

Simple question Pat Nash. During 2009 and 2010, when the Democrats had "majority" in the Congress, Senate, and Obama, why didn't they pass a bill to close wealthy-user tax loopholes and raise taxes on the wealthy. Being majority, it would have passed! Obama is the one that talked about "sharing the wealth". Now we know about his "Hope and Fundamentally Change" - more debt, more taxes, more welfare, more regulations, more Government, more wasteful spending, more corruption. One more change: Vote this Barry Soetoro (Barack "Hussein" Obama) out......again, why the name change!

m_n_o_a_h

OICU: “Seems as though the actual count of signatures is just over 870K and that's before vetting.”

Explain this. Roughly one million signatures were turned in for the recall of Governor Walker. Your statement disputes this. Why?

econam

@mnoah

1 million signatures does not equal one million individual people.

You demonstrated your willingness to CHEAT over and over again right here (if you don’t work for the paper maybe you work for their web page hosting company?) so my guess is that many of your cohorts are cheating in the recall by signing multiple times.

I've see pages where the same person signed twice on the same page using 2 different addresses... and the circulator verified it which is a felony.

Mark Demet of Racine is facing 9 felony charges for forging signatures of his neighbors and even members of his own family. Maximum sentence is 50 years in prison.

Anybody can search for their own name now at this website:
http://www.iverifytherecall.com/

If you find that your name has been forged you can submit the name of the circulator who verified the petition to the District Attorney.

And remember, felons can’t vote in future elections.

sharkmama

Thanks, m_n_o_a_h for pointing that out to oicu. One million signatures to recall Walker, and almost everyone who signed a petition for THAT recall, also signed one for Kleefisch. By my math, that's a lot closer to TWO million than 870K. Wonder where he got that number.

Rightlightning - seems like a good idea to start out with the facts and then build upon those in subsequent weeks. All of the points in her column ARE facts and can be substantiated by those who care enough to look.

Pat - Took guts and a lot of research to write that column. There are those who will NEVER believe the facts because it proves that they are wrong or misinformed. That's a difficult thing for some to swallow. However, some will care enough to look for substantiation and will see that you are not simply writing an opinion piece. Some minds will be opened....some not. It's too important for Wisconsin/ Baraboo area citizens to understand that there is a bigger picture that needs to be investigated.

m_n_o_a_h

I don't work for the web hosting company. I don't work for any affiliate of any company having anything to do with Wiscnews, etc, blah, blah, blah......

econam

@mnoah

"blah, blah, blah..."

Sounds just like all your other posts.

bobreid

Noah, in regard to econam and his fellow minnows, don't you find this to be true?

"What fun it is to tweak dimwits and drive them into sniveling snits."

It doesn't take much. Just watch.

Skeptical
Skeptical

@sharkmama

You said: “All of the points in her column ARE facts and can be substantiated by those who care enough to look.” Really? Strong statement.

Pat Nash said in her column: “As for property taxes, many people who saw a slight decrease fail to consider that the market value of their homes has in many cases gone down, reducing their assessment.”

Are you aware that property taxes (your final bill) are not subject to how the market value of your home rises or falls? Your house could lose 50% of its market value (and/or your assessed value could drop by 50%), but your tax bill does not decrease by 50%. There is this thing they call the mil rate, that accounts for such things. Your tax bill can only go down if the local taxing authority spends less in the coming year. Housing values do not cause that to happen.

Pat’s ‘facts’ are a little incorrect.

Rightlightning
Rightlightning

Oh look everyone! The Great Oz has spoken!

econam

@boobreid (aka 1,2,3)

Me? A a dimwit?

Why I thought I controverted that supposition by using FANCY words just like you.

Ah, I know what will substantiate my perspicacity...

How about a sing-song poem!

Boobreid, Boobreid
So cleaver indeed
His funny Sing-song poems
Caused my pants to be peed
With wit and fancy words
He makes limericks from turds
And when his answers are lacking
He has 1-2-3: Ignore, Divert and start Attacking!

- - - - - -

To all my fans out there, “egoman” thanks you!

econam

@boobreid

"sniveling snits"?

Let's try to be civil... no need drag Dr. Seuss into this.

I bet I'm even making an old grumpy codger like you smile, aren't I?
And they said it couldn't be done.

Thinkforonce
Thinkforonce

oicu812--870K was Kleefish. We would have gotten well over a million for Walker, but we ran out of time. We even had another 30,000 for Walker but couln't get them boxed in time.

Great letter, Pat!

It is good to see the regurgitated drivel coming from the extreme left's women haters.

newsy

I am continually amazed at the derisive comments that come from Walker supporters. I'm equally amazed at how many people vote against their own better interests....my guess is neither "econam" nor "Skeptical" or "oicu812" are part of the 1%.

And, please, show some respect for your elders and leave Allegra Zick alone!

darkenskies
darkenskies

Are we back, again.....in a different tone!

Twitter1

I think the City of Madison could use your column to create methane gas for their eco friendly trucks. You have no clue as to how property taxes are figured. Walker's budget helped cut the School tax, and that Mrs. Nash it the highest part of most tax bills. Once I found out that you were an Educator, I can only guess what the next column will bring. "Oh the poor school teachers".

bobreid

Noah, see, it doesn't take much. Just sit back and enjoy. Soon, Honestly will chime in and more of the bird-witted Bueno-backers will, too. As I have said before, "What fun it is to tweak the dimwitted and drive them into sniveling snits."

Again, sit back, watch, listen, and laugh.

Oh, and remember, kiddies, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

dabritbiker

Economybrain, the Tobacco Setlement was done by Gov. Scott MaCallum, the guy who replaced the Washington bound Tommy Thompson, and he didn't even get the $1.6B out of it. And Skeptical, you can see on your tax bill a line called "assessed value". Some munincipalities use the latest home sales prices to adjust the last physical assessment of your home and property. And many who use this mechanism adjusted down the assessed value of homes in a community as they track the sales of homes with the Deeds. Just as in flush years they increase your homes increases. The formulas are all spelled out on the State's website if you would care to look.

Ms. Nash, very good column, I'm sure that if you had more room to write you would bring out more facts.

eagle1

hey ecoman, we don't need any favors from you.a wolf in sheeps clothing.>Wake up PRIVATE Union Members, you are being sold down the river.

eagle1

oh boy, you would've been crying about the moon program back in the 60's when the first few rockets failed on the launch pad. what a cry baby. Giving $10,000 Tax Payer Funded rebates to people who buy the $40,000 Chevy Volt – a car which had it’s production suspended a few weeks later. (Isn’t that called a FAILURE?)

Cheezer
Cheezer

Nash

Just another aging leftie waiting for her government handouts. Too many to support I am afraid. A fact that does not bode well for poor old Wisconsin.

birder

I'd like to thank the BNR for offering another point of view via Pat's column. And I would ask that we all try to make the community and world a bit more civil. So many comments seem to be filled with so much negativity. Let's start working toward building a community rather than tearing one down.

mitchdigger
mitchdigger

I see that nothing has changed.
Taking personal shots, minimizing others, cherry picking facts.....
On BOTH sides.

Listen up hyperpartisan posters.
This is a learning moment.
If you can't digest other people's opinions without vitriol, personal attacks
or a dismissive and somewhat comedic comment, you are
never going to grow, never be part of the solution to our problems.
I won't point anyone out because I don't have to - it's obvious.

To the few who get it I say thanks.
There seems to be an equal number on both sides and that is heartening.

Honestly

@ think. When you say "women hater's" who or what are you referring too.

econam

@eagle1

So you've voting for Newt then?

He want's a whole buch of neat stuff on the moon.

How cool man!

Skeptical
Skeptical

@dabritbiker

If you would care to research or study a topic in depth, you would find that the assessed value of a property has no bearing on your final tax bill (increasing or decreasing). The purpose of the local taxing authority in adjusting assessed values of homes, is to create fair taxation. They use the assessed values of homes, relative to others, to make those with more valuable homes pay more, and those with less valuable homes, to pay less.

If in a down housing market the local values drop by 50% as a whole, the local taxing authority does not collect 50% less taxes. They adjust the mil rate to the new assessed values, and collect the necessary taxes to pay for the year’s anticipated costs to run the government. Only by the local gov't decreasing costs, will your property tax bill decrease.

You really should study things more deeply, before criticizing.

econam

Is the board working?

No comments posted for a while...

Honestly

@ econam. Yeah it's working it's just ran out characters.

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

With so many low quality Republicans destroying recall petitions and assaulting people who were collecting signatures, a few people signed petitions twice in order to ensure their signatures would survive to be counted. It was entirely legal and made good sense. The sources of the few ridiculous names that may or may not have appeared came from more low quality Republicans of the same ilk.

And Skeptical, the mill rate applies equally to all property, so if the assessed values of some fraction of the town's properties decline disproportionately, the taxes paid on the remaining properties must increase substantially in order to raise the same amount of revenue, and public outcry and the law limits that.

econam

@Concerned Citiizen

"Republicans destroying recall petitions and assaulting people"

WOW!

You guys are already ramping up your propaganda for the Walker win!

How can you be whining before you guys even lose the election?

Just more proof that Liberals will NEVER be happy.

eagle1

aah,never mind.i remember when i got my first computer.[quote]econam said: "@eagle1So you've voting for Newt then?He want's a whole buch of neat stuff on the moon.How cool man!"[/quote]

Just You

"We even had another 30,000 for Walker but couln't get them boxed in time"

Think. Is that why when I looked for my name and family members they were't there. I know I signed it along with my wife, daughter and other family members, but our names are knowwhere on the list. I'm disappointed my signature didn't get counted.

dabritbiker

Er, Skeptical, yes the mill rate is set by the governing body. All in that governing body pays the same rate on assessed value of the property. However under the State Department of the Treasury allows local markets to reduce the assessed value of the property in an area after reviewing the local sales market as evidenced by the purchase price recorded on the registered deed with the county, or increase them in up markets. As such the county can change the assessed value of your property and not only in a large group such as all property but can even micromanage to specific sales areas, i.e. a ward, a price amount,etc. If sales of $2 M homes are sustained in a down market, the county may give a break to the $150K houses that are currently selling at $125K. This allows the counties to not reassess the value of homes in a county, a costly proposition, One that Sauk County did about 3 years ago. Please show me your research?

mitchdigger
mitchdigger

CC wrote-
"With so many low quality Republicans destroying recall petitions and assaulting people who were collecting signatures, a few people signed petitions twice in order to ensure their signatures would survive to be counted. It was entirely legal and made good sense. The sources of the few ridiculous names that may or may not have appeared came from more low quality Republicans of the same ilk."

Insults, aspersions, pretzel logic and justifications.
Same old CC. Nothing to offer except 'brown shirt' rhetoric.

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

Same 'ol digger. Nothing to say, but full of his own bloviating.

Shall we recount the arrests that were made of "low quality Republicans destroying recall petitions and assaulting people who were collecting signatures...?"

In other news: It appears that Governor Walker would like to hurry things up a bit so the election is over by the time his top-level aides start plea bargaining (one conviction and two guilty pleas to date) the remaining 15 felonies and 3 misdemeanors on charges of:

The theft of more than $60,000 intended for widows and children of soldiers killed in action

Child sex crimes

A clandestine email network

Illegal campaign contributions

Abuse of taxpayer resources for political gain

Honestly

@ think. You did not answer me when I asked you about women haters. Let me ask you a question.

Is Bill Maher a woman hater? How about Keith Olberman or Matt Taibbi? Yes or no, think, are these men women haters

Thinkforonce
Thinkforonce

@ Honestly, I was adding to the Rightlighning thing, "Gee, and here I was hoping for something interesting from Pat but all we got is the same regurgitated drivel that has been spewing from the left for the past year."

I said, "It is good to see the regurgitated drivel coming from the extreme left's women haters." That statement was a poor attempt at sarcasm.

I am sure there are some women haters on the left, but it seems like (from recent legislation and Republican conservative spokesman Limbaugh), there are women haters in the Republican Party when it comes to women's contraceptives, personhood, and health care.

Some of those progressive talking heads (Oberman and Maher) have said Nasty things about Republicans Palin and Colter. I do not know if they are or are not women haters.

I will google Matt Taibbi.

Rightlightning
Rightlightning

It is often said: “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit”.

As I often point out, the hypocrisy of the left is staggering. How is it that Maher can call Palin a c*nt without ramifications or comment by the media but Limbaugh calls Fluke a s*ut and the press howls with outrage, advertisers flee the show and there are talks of lawsuits?

I want to be very clear that I believe that both men were out of line with what they said.

A question then to you liberals and progressives: You claim to be all about fair play and treating everyone equally. Please explain and justify the disparity in the way the two situations were handled by the media. (Don’t use the lame excuse of saying that Rush is the “de facto” leader of the Republican Party and this is the reason why it was handled this way.)

bobreid

Rightlightnig says, "It is often said: 'Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit'”. [sic] (Periods and commas always fall within the quotation mark. You need not thank me.)

I think it is most often said by those lacking the wit, perception, intelligence, and necessary capacity to employ it. No reflection on you, of course.

darkenskies
darkenskies

Check out chart VOTER ID required: http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id-state-requirements.aspx


NH is considering Voter ID at this moment. Due to being video taped, persons visually caught using dead people names, asked for vote form and voting in the 2012 primary.


Primary elections are a good test run for fraud participants. Consider that the most important election in our history is November 2012 CA is the biggest democratic liberal state with sanctuary cities for the illegals and does not require any type of voter ID. No questions asked.

Rightlightning
Rightlightning

Ah, so Darth Reid chimes in and has nothing to say except to "correct" my grammar? As usual you have no capability of commenting on anything of substance and you are also ethno-centric and incorrect with your post. Only in the United States is it taught that periods and commas fall within the quotation marks. In the the rest of the English speaking world, this is not what is taught. Look it up and see the truth of it. Remember when I said that I was educated in a place long ago and far away?

By the way how is that compendium to Marx's Communist Manifesto comming along? I would love to read a galley proofs when it's ready. Let me know.

Honestly

@ think. You did not answer the five big Obama lies about Obamacare. Incidentally, as noted, those are all Obama quotes.

Also @ think. I have tried four times to answer your comment about women haters but the actual left wingers language was so vile that the BNR would not print them. Maher is the hater-in-chief for Obama's election hopes.

Honestly

Masochistic personality disorder and elitism go hand in hand.

Show me an elitist......and I'll show you a loser. Tom Clancy

m_n_o_a_h

RL: As I often point out, the hypocrisy of the left is staggering. How is it that Maher can call Palin a c*nt without ramifications or comment by the media but Limbaugh calls Fluke a s*ut and the press howls with outrage, advertisers flee the show and there are talks of lawsuits?

Why do you care?

Honestly

@ mnoah. Sorry mnoah but are you serious when you ask why Maher is not being criticized by the media?

Very simply it's media bias. The media are Obama's biggest cheerleaders. Why is it important? The American people deserve media that is impartial. Tell both sides of an issue and then let the people decide. What could be more fair?

m_n_o_a_h

"Tell both sides of an issue and then let the people decide. What could be more fair?"

Like Fox News? Joke!! Are you trying to tell me you're in favor of the fairness doctrine?

Why do you care what a comedian and a Radio Blowhard say about anyone?

You may not be aware of this, but, Maher is comedian. His show is on HBO. His goal is to make people laugh. I assume he's successful; otherwise his show would have been cancelled.

Rush Limbaugh is a right wing propagandist. He's a blowhard reminiscent of bat guano. He believes most of you right wingers take him seriously; most of you do. Defendrush.org.

I don't care what either one of them say. I was asking why Lightning cared. Further, why would either one of you care to give more attention to something your side should just let go?

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

Ms Palin, intentionally and by her own volition, is a public figure. She ran for and was elected to public office and intentionally became a celebrity, which makes her legally susceptible to nearly all forms of criticism and commntary. Other people's right to freedom of speech drastically reduces or eliminates her protection from libel.

Ms Fluke is a private person whose right to privacy and freedom of speech are intact, and those rights have been abridged by right wing criminals. The meaning of this is that to avoid libel, someone making a statement about her must be able to either prove the statement is true or be held legally libel for any damages that resulted from the statement.

That she may not pursue such a lawsuit to that end is one of the things I do not like about liberals: they are too nice for their own good.

m_n_o_a_h

Stated by a Margaret Thatcher ally: "Lady Thatcher will not be seeing Sarah Palin. That would be belittling for Margaret. Sarah Palin is nuts." The last part: "Sarah Palin is nuts." That's about right. Margaret Thatcher is quite conservative. Sarah Palin's mind is conservative; unable to progress.

Nice defense CC.

Tweaking halfwits......

Rightlightning
Rightlightning

Ah, how disappointing Noah that you seem to be falling prey to Darth Reid's tact for name calling.... And I had better hopes for you.

Let us return to the point at hand. The media bias is clearly exemplified in this situation. It is clear and incontrovertible, therefore, how is one to trust the media? One can't. The sad part is that many people do. Unbiased journalism is dead; a thing of the past. (Did I use my semicolon correctly Darth?)

@CC

You are patently incorrect with your statement. Legally, Ms. Palin is no more or no less of a private citizen than Ms. Whateverhernameisthattestifiedbeforecongress, therefore, if either woman chose to file suit, it would get equal treatment by the court. The difference is that the left has more to win in this situation.

Rightlightning
Rightlightning

Oh, and I almost forgot CC. Please DO get your definitions right. Libel is printed defamation. Slander is spoken defamation, therefore, both Rush and Maher allegedly slandered the women- not libeled as your post states.

Did I get that right Darth?

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

RL,
Libel, defamation, slander; they're all close enough to the same thing at this level of discussion .

However, in the U.S., CELEBRITIES must show actual malice. How many decisions would you like to see RL? I suspect one will be enough.

February 14, 2011: "Judge Real [U.S. District Judge Manuel Real], in his ruling, said Beckham was a 'public figure' and that his lawyers had failed to produce evidence to suggest In Touch had acted with malice. He also said any allegations of infidelity by Beckham would be of interest to the public."

So, go scratch, fool.

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

Libel, defamation, slander; they're all close enough to the same thing at this level of discussion ...yawn... Huh?

However, in the U.S., CELEBRITIES must show actual malice, which is quite difficult to do and our yellow journalism thrives on that fact. How many decisions would you like to see RL? I suspect one will be enough.

February 14, 2011: "Judge Real [U.S. District Judge Manuel Real], in his ruling, said Beckham was a 'public figure' and that his lawyers had failed to produce evidence to suggest In Touch had acted with malice. He also said any allegations of infidelity by Beckham would be of interest to the public."

Got that? "...any ALLEGATIONS of infidelity by Beckham would be of interest to the public."

Allegation: n. an unproven assertion.

So, go scratch, fool.

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

Liberals are so nice it hurts.

Honestly

When liberal activist Fluke went public she was fair game, just like Limbaugh.

When it comes to name calling we're all missing the point. People like Maher, Taibbi, and Schultz can say anything they want to because it's for The Greater Good. (The Greater Good is a registered trademark of the Democratic National Committee. Terms and conditions of The Greater Good are subject to change without notice.)

So let me get this straight mnoah, you don't give a rip if the media is fair? You like the status quo where the media protects the president?

If you believe that Fox News is the modern-day equivalent of Volkischer Beobachter and The New York Times a light unto the world, and whatever the Times publishes is God-given truth while whatever it deems unfit to print doesn't deserve to be known, you are a liberal.

Skeptical
Skeptical

CC said: “Libel, defamation, slander; they're all close enough to the same thing at this level of discussion…”

Huh, so when you are wrong on a topic or issue, it’s ‘not a big deal’ or ‘let’s not be picky’? While the average person with integrity would admit when they are wrong, you on the other hand, say “close enough”. There you have it folks, we can all be “close enough” when it comes to our statements and citing of facts!! Why be ‘accurate’ or ‘correct’, when close enough will do?

And, you and dabritbiker can try all you want to twist and manipulate how property taxes are calculated to try to spin your views, but they will continue to tabulate our property taxes according to how the rules and laws are written.

Honestly

@ mnoah. Schultz, Taibbi, Chris Mathews, and Olbermann are not comedians. Did you know that? They are nothing more than left wing propagandists.
These men have excelled at misogynist comments throughout their careers. Misogyny, like the "n" word, Polish jokes, and religious groups should be off the table in political discourse.

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

When Ms Fluke testified she was under oath, so her act of testifying does not meet the "public figure" criteria of making voluntary utterances, meaning that there existed legal constraints compelling aspects of her behavior. Because what she said was less than fully voluntary, she did not become a public figure as a result of it.

That the drug addled, sweaty slob Limbo rushed to cover his flabby butt is a good indication that his lawyers see it that way as well.

That Ms Fluke might not pursue a lawsuit is one of the things I do not like about liberals: they are too nice for their own good.

Honestly

@ cc. Madame Fluke nearly broke her neck to get before congress. She put herself front and center as any liberal activist trying to help Obama would have done.

Mr. Cummings did not have to recruit her to testify, hell she volunteered. Do you remember Oliver North? Look how public he became after testifying.

More name calling, the hallmark of most radical progressives.

What I find find really hypocritical is now we have Gloria Stienem, and of all people, Hanoi Jane Fonda wanting to lynch Limbaugh.

m_n_o_a_h

Honestly, why do you really want to debate the latest instance of Limbaugh’s big mouth getting himself into trouble? Is it because it’s the conversation de jour on right wing psycho babble radio? Or are you so morally ashamed at the way the PUBLIC has gone after Limbaugh?
“When liberal activist Fluke went public she was fair game, just like Limbaugh.” Are you really trying to compare Limbaugh with Ms. Fluke? Are you calling her a liberal activist because she has studied feminism, and law pertaining to feminism? Have you read something by her mapping out her ‘activist’ ways?

“People like Maher, Taibbi, and Schultz can say anything they want to because it's for The Greater Good.” You are on a roll today. I’m not a fan of Bill Maher. I don’t care what he says. Ed Schultz is a talk show host. If he said what Limbaugh said, he would be in some sort of trouble as well. Matt Taibbi writes for Rolling Stone. I rarely read anything he writes with the exception of his farewell article on Andrew Breitbart (he was too soft on Breitbart).

m_n_o_a_h

“So let me get this straight mnoah, you don't give a rip if the media is fair?” Anymore, no media is completely fair. All media will show a bit of bias. Until the Fairness Doctrine was repealed, news agencies had to follow the law in regards to being fair. It was the Republican/Libertarian push that led to the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine. In other words, if the Fairness Doctrine was still in play, Fox News would not be a ‘news’ organization. If you think that’s preposterous, look at Canada. They have a version of the fairness Doctrine. One of the points in their law states that a ‘news’ organization can’t lie. It was on that point, among others, that Fox News was not allowed to broadcast in Canada.

m_n_o_a_h

“You like the status quo where the media protects the president?” What are you saying here? Protect the president how? By not attacking the president as Fox News does daily? By being responsible journalist when it comes to national security? You tell me; how?

“If you believe that Fox News is the modern-day equivalent of Volkischer Beobachter and The New York Times a light unto the world, and whatever the Times publishes is God-given truth while whatever it deems unfit to print doesn't deserve to be known, you are a liberal.” I don’t believe either one of your ridiculous assumptions here and I’m still a Liberal. “A light unto the world”; where do you get that crap? Are you righties even able to have a conversation without using some form of metaphor?

m_n_o_a_h

“@ mnoah. Schultz, Taibbi, Chris Mathews, and Olbermann are not comedians.” Yes, I knew that. Who cares?


“These men have excelled at misogynist comments throughout their careers. Misogyny, like the "n" word, Polish jokes, and religious groups should be off the table in political discourse.” Misogyny is the hatred of women. If you are going to use a word that up until the last week (or two) you had never even heard of, look it up and use it correctly.

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

Ms Fluke is not a public official, nor was she an "all purpose" public figure, nor was she a "limited purpose" public figure, because her involvement in the issue was not voluntary, which is to say she was personally being effected by the policies and it was not of her own choosing, so her actions were those of a person who was defending herself.

Her ability to defend herself has been forever damaged by Blubber Mouth Limbaugh's smarmy, for personal profit, slander.

Lefties are to too nice.

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

Hey Skippy! Hey! Look! Over there! A squirrel!

m_n_o_a_h

“Madame Fluke nearly broke her neck to get before congress.” And you know this how? President Obama didn’t call Ms Fluke to testify. Congressman Cummings, in an attempt to have women represented, and Democrats represented, asked Ms. Fluke to testify. Congressman Issa, in an attempt to stack the deck, denied her testimony. Women didn’t like that. Democrats didn’t like that. Limbaugh did like that. Limbaugh is now seeing the backlash of his position of liking that, and his response to that position.

“Hanoi Jane Fonda” Ooohhhh. How utterly impressive. More metaphors.

darkenskies
darkenskies

Thirty-year-old Sandra Fluke is a ploy. She just didn't pop-up out of no-where due to her expensive spending habit on contraceptive pills.. She has her voice and democratic connection. Sounds like she loves having "a lot of sex" during her Georgetown education for spending $3,000 yearly on contraceptives. She did say the costs and takes all her summer employment money. Don't forget, after her graduation she will be working and be ranked in the 1%. Makes a person sad she won't be able to afford her expensive sex life. Doesn't that make you what to cry! Wonder what that Bill Maher quietly thinks of her in his old filthy mind! Take notice of his pony-tail friend!

m_n_o_a_h

Yes darken, everything is a conspiracy.

Do you understand how contraception works? The items in your post would say you don’t.

Where do you get the idea, that Ms. Fluke has lots of sex? And what constitutes lots of sex? And what business is it of yours?

darkenskies
darkenskies

"Where do you get the idea, that Ms. Fluke has lots of sex? And what constitutes lots of sex? And what business is it of yours?" She exploited - due to her telling at the congressional hearing what "she spends on contraceptives - $3,000" and it takes all her summer employment money. We all know what contraceptives costs, cheap. She can have all the sex she wants, but don't expect the hard-working taxpayers to pay for Miss Fluke's very active sex life. What about all the unemployed, the older generation that don't need to use contraceptives and/or condoms anymore. Many married couples do have preventive surgeries done to prevent pregnancy after they have the number of children they want. Why should taxpayers continue to pay for the rich little gal very active sex life. Taxpayers are already paying for contraceptives at Planned Parenthood and at Federal organizations. Go get the freebies there. Miss Fluke is not poor and if she gets a job, she will be ranked in the 1%.

darkenskies
darkenskies

OK Concerned Citizen.

mitchdigger
mitchdigger

Noah wrote-
"Nice defense CC. Tweaking halfwits......"
This halfwit would take offense if he could just unstick his finger
from a really deep nose dig. Damn this world for making stupid = conservative.
Ridiculous Noah.
And this -
"Until the Fairness Doctrine was repealed, news agencies had to follow the law in regards to being fair"
I think I found a subject where you need a history lesson, or.....
Being naive when convenient is willful ignorance.
I guess the latter.

CC wrote -
"That the drug addled, sweaty slob Limbo"
"Blubber Mouth Limbaugh's smarmy, for personal profit, slander"
In a forum about our world needing less coarse rhetoric,
CC shows us where his/her beliefs lie - in aheap in the corner.

Rightlightning, you're killing it. Thank you and others for keeping
the argument where it belongs, not tangental.
The bottom line is all are given free speech.
The question right know is who is gleeful/hateful about someone
who may lose their platform?

Honestly

@ mnoah. "Misogyny is the hatred of women". That is the shallowist definition of misogyny, for indeed misogyny manifests itself in many different ways.

Pay attention "little one" for you may learn something.

Misogyny can be sexual discrimination, it can be violence against women, it can be sexual objectification, and it can be denigration of women. Denigration is probably a "new word" for your limited vocabulary as it is for this discussion the one word that means to defame someone, malign someone, slander someone, disparage someone, and finally it can mean "name calling".

So, "little one" for the second time in two weeks I have caught you being disingenuous. At the very least you should admit that you were wrong with your very shallow definition of misogyny. You also owe me an apology for telling me that I did not know the meaning of the word and that I used it incorrectly.

Honestly

@ concerned citizen. You will lose your credibility and your argument every time when you resort to language like; "You don't warn me about anything punk".

m_n_o_a_h

"Damn this world for making stupid = conservative.
Ridiculous Noah." - What?

And this -
"Until the Fairness Doctrine was repealed, news agencies had to follow the law in regards to being fair"
I think I found a subject where you need a history lesson, or.....
Being naive when convenient is willful ignorance.
I guess the latter." Give me a history lesson. Please. Enlighten me.

m_n_o_a_h

Dear Honestly, One has to question your intellectual capabilities.

The definition of ‘misogyny’ is the hatred of women (or girls). Origin: 1650s, from Gk. misogynia, from misogynes "woman-hater," from miso- gyne "woman".

This is the definition. You can attempt to justify your incorrect use of the word any way you want. However, you should realize your justification does not change the meaning of the word. Your justification merely points to the fact, that you don’t know the meaning of the word. I pointed this out. You could have sought out the definition. Instead, you sought out a justification. The word can be used in different forms. For example: Rush Limbaugh’s response to Ms Fluke is misogynistic in nature. In other words, his response is misogynous. Therefore, we can deduce that Rush Limbaugh is a misogynist.

m_n_o_a_h

Darken,

" She exploited - due to her telling at the congressional hearing what "she spends on contraceptives - $3,000" and it takes all her summer employment money.” This is what she actually stated: “For a lot of students who, like me, are on public interest scholarships, that’s practically an entire summer’s salary.” And she stated “Without insurance coverage, contraception, as you know, can cost a woman over $3,000 during law school.” Your statement is false. You lied.

“We all know what contraceptives costs, cheap.” How do you know this? Do you believe contraceptives are one-size-fits-all? This statement is disingenuous. It lacks any credibility.

“She can have all the sex she wants, but don't expect the hard-working taxpayers to pay for Miss Fluke's very active sex life.” She never spoke about having sex. And, it’s an insurance policy in which she pays for. Not you. Not other taxpayers. Her. She pays for the policy.

“What about all the unemployed, the older generation that don't need to use contraceptives and/or condoms anymore. Many married couples do have preventive surgeries done to prevent pregnancy after they have the number of children they want.” This is a ridiculous argument. Insurance policies for groups/institutions/families cover a multitude of issues that aren’t needed by everyone. It’s part of the coverage. For instance, my wife doesn’t need coverage for prostate health.

“Why should taxpayers continue to pay for the rich little gal very active sex life. Taxpayers are already paying for contraceptives at Planned Parenthood and at Federal organizations. Go get the freebies there. Miss Fluke is not poor and if she gets a job, she will be ranked in the 1%.” How do you know the amount of wealth she has at this very moment? How do you know the income she will receive before she is finished with school? How do you know the frequency of her sex life? How do you know if she is heterosexual or homosexual? Why do you use unfounded assumptions as a base for your arguments?

Honestly

@ mnoah. I misjudged you, I thought you were more intelligent. You are absolutely wrong in your "simple" definition of misogyny.

Rap music, for example, can be misogynous when they say "whores" or "hoes". "Bitches" another rap music term is used to denigrate or degrade women. If you denigrate or degrade a women then it's misogyny. What don't you understand about misogyny? It's very basic to most people.

darkenskies
darkenskies

Reference to m_n_o_a_h. When I post, I don't assume.

m_n_o_a_h

Me: The definition of ‘misogyny’ is the hatred of women (or girls).
Honestly: “You are absolutely wrong in your "simple" definition of misogyny.”

Are all of these sources wrong too?

Wikipedia - Misogyny is the hatred of women or girls.
Medical dictionary – Hatred of women
World English dictionary – Hatred of women
Dictionary.com – Hatred, dislike, or distrust of women
Merriam-Webster dictionary – A hatred of women
The free dictionary – Hatred of women
Collins English dictionary – Hatred of women

m_n_o_a_h

Darken: “When I post, I don't assume.”

Then answer the other questions. If you don’t assume, then you must ‘know’. Here are the questions again: How do you know the amount of wealth she has at this very moment? How do you know the income she will receive before she is finished with school? How do you know the frequency of her sex life? How do you know if she is heterosexual or homosexual? Why do you use unfounded assumptions as a base for your arguments?

Honestly

@ mnoah. We agree that misogyny is the hatred of women. A component of misogyny is name calling. Look at Wikipedia more carefully and you will find that you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Don't be such a rock head, you're wrong.

darkenskies
darkenskies

Again, reference to m_n_o_a_h. When I post, I don't assume.

m_n_o_a_h

"When I post, I don't assume." Lie

darkenskies
darkenskies

Showing your interest in the word misogyny, what do you call the million dollar donor to O., Bill Maher, who for years, uses vile language against right-wing women and especially Sarah Palin and her children. I never heard him speak vile language when talking about the left-wing females.


Thought I would share. Read an article today. The comments were very interesting. Big majority of men and women did not have a nice word to say about this Sandra Fluke, who is dating a son of a known democrat. Right now, she is having a good time with her boyfriend in CA. Wait till she gets back to Georgetown, and after parents having a discussion with their own daughters and sons, there could be a little backlash on this Fluke.

bobreid

RL: “Ah, so Darth Reid chimes in and has nothing to say except to ‘correct’ my grammar?”


Time to learn the difference between grammar and punctuation, RL, but, then, you were educated long ago and far away. Do you still drive on the left side of the road?

It’s more than a bit ironic you would say: "It is often said: 'Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit'”. [sic] Then, when I point out that “it is most often said by those lacking the wit, perception, intelligence, and necessary capacity to employ it,” you then attempt to be sarcastic.

You write: “By the way how is that compendium to Marx's Communist Manifesto comming [sic] along? I would love to read a galley proofs [sic] when it's ready.” (I think you confuse “compendium” with “concordance,” but that is the least of your disparate problems.)

You and your bird-witted buddies are just too easy.

Mmmmmmm, minnows!

the_botnet

Patricia A Nash couldn't wait to sign the recall. I'd imagine she was a bit gleeful when she signed on November 15th (the very first day). Here she is on line 7:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4028/patnash005041.png

And in case anybody wondered about the editorial "They" in the headline...

Concerned Citiizen
Concerned Citiizen

TB,
Isn't that the same day that you gleefully didn't sign it? Coincidence? I think not.

mitchdigger
mitchdigger

Noah,
I was refering to Yellow journalism, Randolph Hearst, the newspaper
wars and the fact that a biased news is not unusal for our country, it's the norm.
The Fairness Doctrine was empty legislation by empty suited politicians, also nothing new.
(point at problem, talk endlessly about problem, take credit for solving problem)

mitchdigger
mitchdigger

I'm hoping that going back to 1st shift will help me edit for spelling.

pharriman
pharriman

The number of shares for Pat's column is 186. Thanks for getting the truth out Pat.

Bobbie828

Thank you, Ms. Nash for a column that is clear and concise. It is the kind of message that will reach more than just the choir and the trolls. Proud to share on my Facebook page - twice!

darkenskies
darkenskies

Just want to mention, in case certain individuals didn't see it today on their news. Miss Sandra Fluke back on the stand to re-explain her contraceptive position. Getting deeper and deeper into problems with showing her nose on Capital Hill, again.

darkenskies
darkenskies

Ktenreb, my username is darkenskies. You tried this before. Don't you know how to spell! People like you that try to be smart are not worth answering to.

ktenreb

Darkens** -- Perhaps you could answer my question: Does it give you the willies to consider that a young woman might choose to have sexual relations with consenting men or women? Do you agree with Rush that she should provide videos of her doing the deed? Does it matter to you if she prefers "normal" sex, or if she liked to experiment with unusual types? You seem to be all over this story, but for the life of me I just can't seem to understand your, or anybody else's, fascination. Please enlighen me. You are free to spell my screen name any way you like; we have learned from several posters that spelling and grammar, and cogent, persuasive writing, are not important. After all, others are supposed to listen to what we mean to say, not what we actually say.

Thinkforonce
Thinkforonce

Darkens, if he is not worth answer too, does it make sense to answer to him?

Thinkforonce
Thinkforonce

That does sound like darksauey. ; )

bobreid

I may be somewhat of a hypocrite here, but I have assumed I knew who certain posters are, and I really tried not to do that, but I did and, without naming them, addresse

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